Russan MRR c 1985

Its been a fair while since we posted anything here.

A question about SovietWarpac forces on the Spearhead Yahoogroup in the last couple of weeks prompted me to have a dig in the files for some of my Russian lists.I have not written any lists for this army for a long time, so will have to rely on memory for my reasoning. This list was written for the NZ Nationals in 2008, so some will say its been optimised for competition. I recall that I never really optimised lists, I just came up with things that I thought would either work well on the table, or just be interesting to play. If that is 'optimised', I'll eat my hair...

The list is based on a BTR motor rifle regiment. I used BTR 70's as those were the models I had brought back in 1990

Russian MRR attack list c. 1985 RHQ 1 BTR 70  @7 7 2 battalions each BHQ 1 BTR-70  @7 7 9 BTR-70 ICT  @7 63 1 BTR-70 AT  @19 19 1 BTR-70 AA  @14 14 2 120mm Mortar/truck  @7 14 117 x2 = 234 1 battalion BHQ 1 BTR-70  @7 7 9 BTR-70 ICT  @7 63 1 BTR-70 AT  @19 19 1 120mm Mortar/truck  @7 7 96 1 1attalion BHQ T64BV  @28 28 9 T64BV  @28 252 280 AA coy 1 ZSU 23/4  @17 17 1 SA-9  @21 21 AT coy 2 BRDM-3  @19 38 Divisional attachments AA coy  1 SA-6 off table  @32 x 0.8  25 AT coy 2 BRDM-3  @19 38 helicopters 2 Hind E   @45 90 Combined arms army support 2 Battalions off table artillery 1 FAO (on table)  @10 10 3 BM-27 MRL +1 ICM mission @26x0.8 62 72 x 2 =144 army total 990 x0.9=900 option A artillery 1 FAO (on table)  @10 10 off table 4 D20 152 How  @11 x 0.8 35 10 entrenchments  @1 55 x 0.9 =50 Option A 1 AGC  @10 10 1 SU 25 frogfoot  @41 41 51 x 0.9 =46 Option B 1 AGC  @10 10 2 SU 25 frogfoot/rockets@41 82 92 x 0.9 =92 option B 2 artillery battalions off table 1 FAO (on table)  @10 10 4 D20 152 How  @11 x 0.8 35 x 2 = 90 x0.9=50

Notes.

I have not used the MRR SU-122 artillery battalions as they are not that much use unless on table in the direct fire mode or spotting for themselves. I instead picked BM-27 fire support as there is nothing that will ruin any ones day quite like an MRL strike (I'm not sure how I was allowed to use these but the list was checked and allowed as legal, so I can blame others)

In the first option A, I included 10 entrenchments. Not something that an attacking army would normally choose. I was considering using them for the scenario attack stance where you can start 1 battalion on table. I would possibly dig them in to hold a flank while the rest of the army attacks with a secure flank to counter a NATO flank march. They also use up 10 points that I would otherwise leave hanging.

A list allows 3 option A's and 3 option B's. I would suggest creating your own instead of using mine.

If you are not happy with the MRL's, I would swap these for an SU-122 battalion, 152mm howitzers or support from the divisional tank battalion.

The other side of the fence.

Following on from the Austrians, I figured it was as good a time as any to cover the opposition.
Luke Ueda-Sarson has exhaustively covered the Czechs, and I'm going to wave my hands a bit describing the Hungarians. All information for this list has been sourced from Bruce Rea-Taylor's "Ultramodern army lists vol1" and Google tends to broadly back it up.
The Hungarians managed to have there own arms industry as well, though not on the same scale as the Czechs or Poles. It was pretty much just their own wheeled APC. Unlike everyone else it was based on a 4 wheeled chassis (not 8 like everyone else). This suggests that the average Hungarian is a bit smaller than his fellow Warpac allies. It also means that the support weapons get their own separate ride.

The Hungarian army was mostly motor rifle divisions with only one tank division (from my notes). Their tank of choice was the good old T55A.

Regimental HQ
1 OT-65/ command stand
1 PSZH-4 Infantry combat team

3 Battalions
BHQ 1 PSZH-4 command team
6 PSZH-4 Infantry combat teams
1 PSZH-4 / 30mm GL team
1 PSZH-4 / Sagger ATGW team
1 PSZH-1 / SA-7 team
1 PSZH-4 / 82mm Mortar

1 Battalion
BHQ T55A
3 companies each 2 T55A

Regimental anti tank company
2 BRDM 2S

Regimental AA company
1 SA-9 AA
1 ZSU 23/4

Recce company
2 OT-65
1 PT-76

Regimental artillery group.
FAO in OT-65
4 122mm M1943 / truck

Divisional artillery would be more 122mm as above, with a battalion of M1943 152mm, and Bm21's
Unfortunately I have not been able to determine how the BMP-1's were issued. Hungary had 500 which is roughly enough for 5 regiments. As there were 5 MR divisions and a tank division, there were obviously not enough to go round. Hungary also possessed 150 BTR-50 which would be enough AFV's for a tank division.

Something a little bit different

I was wondering where to start this project, and thought that an army without a list might be interesting.
(Just as a disclaimer, I've created this from the sources I have available to me. There will be errors, but if anyone cam point them out, could they provide sources to back them up please?)

The Austrian army is rather small given its position bordered by 2 Warsaw Pact states. While Czechoslovakia and Hungary are not great threats, they are still a challenge for a NATO 2 nation.
The country managed to avoid communism after world war 2, but the price paid was no long range artillery, and no missiles of any kind (even Sidewinderers for the fighters until the 1990's).

The following notes are based on Bruce Rea-Taylors book Ultra Modern army lists and organisations volume 1 ( and I have just suppressed a laugh as I wrote this)

The regular forces consisted of a division of 3 equal brigades (I've found some evidence that 1 brigade was short an AT battalion, but I can't substantiate this with the sources available to me).

Austrian Regular Mechanised brigade
Brigade Hq 1 Saurer 4K3 FA FU ICT

1 Tank battalion
BHQ 1 M60A1 or 1 Saurer 4K3 FA FU ICT
3 companies 4 M60A1

1 Infantry battalion
BHQ 1 ICT/Saurer 4K3 FA FU ICT
2 Saurer 4K4 GR1W/81mm Mortar
4 companies 2 Saurer 4K3 G1 ICT
                     1 Saurer 4K4 G2 ICT

1AT battalion
BHQ 1 ICT/Saurer 4K3 FA FU
3 companies 4 SK105

1 artillery battalion 4 M109with FAO

Up to 1 M42 AA attached to any BHQ.

The reserves were organised into 8 brigades (with more independent battalions). I'd possibly use the 3rd world rating for command and control, but still rate them as regular.
as well as these troops, there also appears to have been independent mechanised infantry and AT battalions as listed above. I have no evidence for these beyond that's what the numbers of AFV's suggest that there were present in the army at that time.)

Landwehr Reserve Brigade

Brigade Hq 1 rifle group/truck

3 85mm AT gun/truck
3 35mm AA/truck

3 battalions
BHQ rifle stand /truck
1 81mm mortar/truck
1 120mm mortar/truck
2 106mm RCL/jeep
3 companies 3 rifle stand/truck

1 battalion 4 105mm how/truck with FAO

There were also some fixed border defences which consisted of Centurion turrets, similar to Panther turrets used as part of the Gothic line in Italy in 1944.

No stats card sorry. for the SK 105 I'd use the stats for the AMX13/105. The Saurer APC is the same as any other APC of that era, so probably use the stats for the French AMX-VCI (LAW for AT etc). Use the stats ( and points values) from the AMX-10P for the 20mm armed version. the rest of the bits and pieces should be found on the US data card (or near equivalents)

For creating an army list from this, I'd base the attack list on the mechanised division, and a defend list on the reserve brigades (with 3-4 Centurion turrets thrown in as prepared defenses).

It should provide an entertaining game with its neighboring Warpac nations.

MSH central Europe

One of the major battlegrounds that World War 3 was going to be fought over (on the ground at least) was West Germany. Thus at times it must have resembled a large armed camp, with East Germany not much better.

For the war gamer there is a wide variety of armies to choose from. In Northag, there are the Dutch, Belgians and British, as we ll as the Germans. It was also the destination for the US IIIrd corps with its hardware prepositioned and the men to be flown in from the US. These troops would be facing Russian and east German troops. Further north there is a collection of troops 'defending' Denmark which includes a West German division and the Danish army.

Further south we get into Centag. This at first appears to be only the US and West Germany facing off against the Russians, East Germans and Czechs, buts we also get the French as an added bonus. And that's before we get the West German mountain and airborne troops.

But that's not the whole story. Go a bit further south-east and we come to Austria. Not a member of NATO, but with borders facing the Warsaw pact. So we can add into the Mix Czechoslovakia and Hungary, south of here we have Italy and Yugoslavia. As an added bonus all 5 nations have indigenous arms industries so there are some different AFV's to field.

The last, and possibly most interesting spot is the area shown in the map below.

The border between Greece, Turkey and Bulgaria. maybe not that interesting at first glance, but Greece and Turkey have never really got along. Add in Yugoslavia, Albania and Bulgaria and there are some interesting options here.
To cap it all off, no army in this region has first rate equipment, with some dating back to WW2.

Next will be to have a look at some of the armies in more detail.

MSH time

Well, its been a few months. Work has been rather nuts, and to cap it all off, no gaming (well, there was that one weekend I played Napoleon, but that's another story).
Overall I have not been overly inspired to write army lists. I get as far as picking up the books, but that's about it.Even my Russian cavalry division is stalled as I have not picked any of it up for a couple of months.

I thought for the next wee bit, to try to get things going again (if that can happen when one is on holiday) I might visit my favorite MSH period, The central front in Germany 1975-1985. Now I must admit to having a bit of a love hate relationship with MSH.It was my first introduction to the Spearhead gaming system, and I still remember the amazement that I felt that my tanks were over the 1/2 way line on the table, and actually doing something rather than just sitting still and sniping. I find the rules far more complicated than their WW2 brethren. While this is understandable, I admit that I tend to forget some of the finer points, and indeed some of the lesser bits in the turn sequence (like forgetting to fire stands at the right times). One thing that does make it hard is that the army lists tend to be a bit on the bland side. The WW2 lists tend to have a whole stack of cool toys in a division, and its possible to knock up some interesting army lists without too much trouble. MSH brigades tend to be rather the same within a division, with few different 'toys'.

National differences are not quite as pronounced either due to arms exports (however this is not overly different from the US supplying that allies at the tail end of WW2). Actually, this isn't quite the case as at least 4 NATO nations had decent arms industries( France, Germany, GB and USA) plus some of the lesser nations, and on the WARPAC side most of the nations had some indigenous AFV's backed up by the ubiquitous Russian equipment.

The period itself is interesting as it sees the introduction of new technology on both sides, but comes before the introduction of the NATO uber tanks which completely take the fun out of the game. The Russians get the improved T64 and T72.

Next up, a closer look at gaming possibilities.

The pretty bits

One thing that I have never really been happy with is the terrain that we use for our games. The main problem is the disconnect between the figure scale and the ground scale. How do we replicate this while retaining the playability.

And of course there are variations on the theme, with the following picture having far more straight lines than the first picture.

Looking at this picture you can see possibly 3 town sectors joined by thinner strips which could be counted (under the rules) as woods. Also note the straight lines of the woods on the ridge behind the town.

In this shot the woods edges are not as linear. The town is maybe 1 sector. Note the patchwork fields as well.
So, how do we attempt to replicate this on the table. After all, if we didn't worry about what our models looked like we may as well play with plain counters on a map. However I do think that we should be able to do better than this.

Yes, its bring on the tatty bits of felt time. This was for a historic refight (Arras if I'm not mistaken). The felt roads are serviceable at best but still grate on my eyes.

Getting better but still with the felt.

The forest sections were from off cuts of carpet that came from helping a mate redo his flat (as he wasn't allowed to play with sharp objects as he was an academic). I like the 3 dimensional look of the forests here. The hexagonal shape was something that I decided on for areas of forest. it might not look that great, but it works on the table. The roads and river are painted on (from a refight of the Sedan crossings).

Adding in the vertical dimension improves this visually.

Here we have a US armoured cavalry troop facing off a Russian motor rifle battalion. Looks like I'm having another good dice rolling day.

Here we have the problem with 3D terrain, which is what happens when stands transition between the 2. Someone is clearly getting their ass flanked.

My thinking for forests at the moment is a combination of the carpet squares with the tree stands that can been seen placed on top (and I'm not sure why we used them. its obvious that they are forests!). I can live with the stand displacement.

I have also spent some time pondering town sectors. Ideally I would like to keep the 3D aspect but add a flat top to place the defending stands. A clear top could be a possibility but they tend to get scratched and look tatty. A soldered wire armature could be another possibility.

On lists

When writing an army lists I find that the biggest hurdle to the process is the 'reading' of the relevant SH/MSH list. Its actually easiest if you have an idea of what your finished list will look like before you start. I've also been reminded yesterday that not only are there minefields in the rules themselves with the relevant bits hidden in a variety of places.

Now, what I'm pondering is creating a set of lists that are easy for gamers to create a list without all the nit picking. the real question is what format would be best/easiest to read. Just letting my brain run at the moment, here is a rough thought.

1 regimental HQ (every army needs one)

X battalions each
1 BHQ
6-9 fighting platoons (or whatever 66%-100% translates to)
0-1 support stands
(as many as needed)
regimental stands s required.

Divisional supports
up to 3 companies each x stands.

then have the various equipment options, or possibly select standard years for gaming (SH or MSH).

I hope that everyone can sort of see what I'm getting at.
this might make life a bit easier.

(I won't be replying quickly as I'm busy playing Napoleon at Borodino today)