Friday night

 A request from a friend during the week inspires this post, and apparently I owe him for making my dice look good last weekend (and he really outdid himself).

During the week I've had the 1:600 aircraft painting bench out. Among the pile I picked out the F4 Phantoms. Once described as proof that with large enough engines you could fly a brick, The F4 served untill the late 1990's with the US and some are still operational over 60 years after the prototype flew.

Surprisingly few NATO nations used the F4, prefering something cheaper like the F5 so I was somewhat limited in options for the paintschemes. So what did we get? (and sorry its so dark,I'm seldom home in daylight in winter)

Left to right we have the Luftwaffe splinter camoflage, At the back the Euro one (also called the lizard scheme), the front is the South East Asia scheme worn in Vietnam and then in US based F4 units untill the late 1980's (and hence a possiblity in Europe) which is also my favorite. Finaly on the right is the RAF verson.

Its been quuite fun painting a varity of schemes on the same aircraft. Not overly easy on aircraft from the 1980's.

Update: heres a couple of slightly better photo's.

Luftwaffe and RAF

USAF

On the bench

 A "second" Sunday update (it being a holiday and all) I thought it was time to update whats been across my workbench in the last month. First up was the finish for the moment of the 1:600 aircraft replacement project (as I just got tired of it ).

Not everything based but mostly started. The Russian heicopters need completing but that waits for a second order the Mr Page is waiting on.

And the pile that its replacing...

 

Theres an interesting historical mix of manufacturers here. Heroics and Ros, some old NZ military minatures models (my, they were nice), a couple of Skytrex, some GHQ and local cast GHQ ripoffs and one that completey escapes me whic is saying something (a variable sweep wing Mig 23). This doesn't count the helicopters. All to eventually go on Trademe (uness anyone makes me an offer, money or trade, for any of the bits. I'm happy to split it off).

With this workbench out of the way I went to some IHMN figures. I had brought a pack of Perry Mahdist infantry a while back to provide the cheap cultists/filler that any evil gang needs. Plus they were 40 figures for 20 quid which is about what you want to pay for expendables. I had never assembled  any sort of multipose figures before  and its taken me a while to get into it (not just weapons but heads too). With all the options I eventually simplified it standising on the clothes and weapons. A first group was done with swords backed up by some guys with rifles.

 

The problem with the boxes like this is that theres only so many weapons, so at this point I was out of sword arms. It was then onto the spears and shields.

 

Finally, with the impending opening of the Baccus cart again (and with Heroics and Ros still sort of open, but not with my complete needs for any MSH projects) it was time to get back into the Napoleonics pile. First up off the blocks was the Wurtemberg contingent. By good management or good luck they were still a full division by Liepzig at the end of 1813 so its only 100 infantry with artillery and commanders.

 

 

I'm not quite sure what I am ordering next but given that the last order I made was on August the 13th, and its being cast this week (so I shoudl see it by December) I'm now ordering figures for Febuaray next year. Such is the current way of the world.

Desant

 I was having a bit of a hunt through the back-blocks of my hard drive today and came across a TOE for Russian airborn units published by those nice chaps at the Army Infantry School in Fort Benning. Its part of ST 7-198 FY 84. N this is a handy document as I am rather sceptical of the TOE's that I have seen. Now I suppose I should hold any information from the 80's with a grain of salt as information on TOE's was very hard to come by (even more so at the arse end of the world). However the official TOE's for MSH are in places not much better (British anyone?)

Now I must admit that I have some misgivings about bits of it which I'll address at the end.

Divisional HQ     HQ infantry stand.

                            2 BRDM-2

Support regiment

            Artillery regiment 4 x D-30 122mm

            Artillery regiment 4 x BM-14/GAZ66

            AT battalion 4 x ASU-85

1 BMD regiment    HQ in BMD

                                1 BRDM-2

Mortar battery     1 x 120mm Mortar/GAZ66

AA battery           1 x 23mm AA /GAZ66

AT battery             2 x BRDM 2S/BRDM 3

3 Battalions    HQ in BMD

                    3 companies 2 BMD-1 

2 Parachute Regiments HQ infantry stand 

BMD coy 2 BMD-1

Mortar battery     1 x 120mm Mortar/GAZ66

AA battery           1 x 23mm AA /GAZ66

AT battery            1 x SD-85/GAZ66

3 Battalions          HQ stand 

                    3 companies 3 Inf stands

                                         1 SPG9

                    3 companies 3 SPG9

                                         2 AT3/AT4

Man the formatting for the new blogger is rubbish for something like this.

So issues I do have is a lack of regiment/battalion recce elements, engineering stands and 82mm mortars. The 82mm mortars might be replaced by SPG-9's as they would be easier to cart round than a mortar baseplate. 

Now oddly enough the airborne units that I have modeled seem to be from another source which from what I can tell was Jake Collins old site.

First up the parachute units. This appears to be a BHQ, 3 companies of 2 platoons, an 82mm and 120mm Mortar, an SA-7 and 2 AT stabds (mixed SPG9 and AT-4).

The BMD battalion is BMD comand (BMD-KSH), 3 compaies of 2 platoons, plus an 82mm motar and a 30mm GL

To cap this whole story off I have another TOE for 1979 in one of those annoying "every vehicle represented by a sillouete" which doesn't give numbers (which counting 30 trucks is just daft) or platoon/squad breakdowns. it also has some really odd stuff of which I'll give 2 examples;

-BMD companies have an extra platoon with SPG-9 in trucks. now why if you have 10 73mm guns would you want another 3 that are unarmoured?

-The Regiment has a battery of ASU-57, when these were phased out in the mid 1970's

So, a bit of a mess really, and no clear winners.

I'll leave you all with a picture of my ASU-85 battaion, possibly the worst idea anyAFV  designer could come up with.

A bit of history

 One of the bonuses of getting a new phone is having access to the internet. Over the last 3-4 weeks I have started listening to some Podcasts from Gods Own Scale which has some interesting ramblings about wargaming wih the main aim being to promote 6mm wargaming. Theres even an episode chatting to Robert Dunlop who is a proponent of Great War Spearhead (which I really must have a go at). However I'm going to comment on his line which is "Keep talking about 6". I've noticed over the years (and moreso in the last 10 or so) that more people have noticed that you can play games in the more "pretty" periods of history that don't look like its a pub stoush on a Saturday night. Us 20th century "treadheads", as I think the owner of Baccus minatures once referred to us, worked out that 6mm was an ideal scale a lot longer ago, probably as its more convenient to fling sharp bits of metal 2000m at objects without it looking silly on a 6 by 4. Having a look through my collection last night I came up with these guys.

These were some of the first 6mm minatures I purchased back in 1983 and were fighting the cold war when it was Ultra-Modern. Still in their original paintjob which wasn't that bad for a 15 year old. They have survived being unbased due to a younger me baking the first layer of paint on; 200C in an oven for 10 minutes. It stinks and be very careful about the mix of metal that is used (lead doesn't melt at this temp, but I'm not sure about pewter). I also have in my collection Russians purchased before the colapse of the Soviet Union. So technically I've been talking about 6 for over 35 years. 

On the other hand, here's some figures on the painting bench this morning just after basing. There comes a time in every Napoleonic gamers life where he has to paint the French Imperial Guard. I have held off for a long time, but playing the campaigns of 1813 and 1814 means that unfortunately you just have to have these guys in the box. This week I've painted the Greanadiers, and am now starting on the Chasseurs.

In the last couple of weeks I painted most of the cavalry.

Front base is the 1st and 2nd lancers and behind is the Horse Grenadiers and Empress Dragoons. I've also done the Chassers de Cheval. Oddly enough I in the last couple of Baccus orders I forgot the Middle guard figures and so these were ordered during the last Baccus open cart session. Oh and if anyone has an interest in the spare figures that I haven't used (36 Horse Grenadiers anyone?) drop me a line.

After the Guardis finished I will probably start on the 3000 pts of Prussians curretly sitting in the sun. Theres a corps of Poles to do but it will be nice to have another opponent for the French.

More modern air support

 As a follow up to the last post, Peter and I also went halves on some NATO aircraft sets. As part of my SH/MSH air support replacement program I got the following.

Front left to right Gazelle, Lynx and Harrier, back PAH-1, UH-1 and an out of focus Saab Draken (Danes). My Brits have never actually had any air support so I'm sure it will be apreciated.

Next up the Russians and more Helicopters.

 

L to R Mi-4 Hound, Mi-8 Hip and Mi-6 Hook with a Hind in the back to scale. Now I knew that the Mi-6 was big but this is just enormous. In teamYankee you would not be able to fire the length of the cargo bay. Oh and a Mig 21's as well.

Finally I could not resist his set after my reading on the air war over North Vietnam. A complete SA-2 battery complete wth the "Spoon Rest" early warning radar and "Fan Song" fire control radar.

 The "Spoon Rest" radar array is printed on acetate (though possibly a bit thicker might be nice). The "Fan Song" looks like it was invented by a mad scientist on a wild weekend bender. I'd hate to see it change direction quickly.

"It won't track the target".

" Then stick more radar dishes on it!"

More Aircraft

Further painting on the air support. Russian aircraft in GSFG seemed to carry 3 colour schemes in the early 1980's. Out with the paints and my best matches seem to be Nato green and brown. They then got a wash and drybrush.

 Mig 27's recieved a stripy scheme.

The SU-25 was supposed to have a factory applied scheme. I quick search didn't seem to bear this up, so I just painted a 3 colour scheme.

 Likewise the Su17's. I'm quite happy with the way these models have turned out (missing Russian stars not withstanding). They are working out as I had envisaged. I'm not to sure about the cockpit colour at the moment, I might need to look at something slightly lighter.

With the modern aircraft turning out well, I decided to revisit the WW2 ground support aircraft that I had purchased at the same time. I glued some brass wire to some Typhoons and gave them a dark grey undercoat. I had previously based some P-47's in a 4 on one base on one mounting armature. This resulted in a pretty structure but the aircraft were a bit close for some. The typhoons were mounted in 2's but with the armatures spaced out on the base which I think looks a bit better.

I was sure I had brought some decals for these models but it turns out they were an earlier purchase for 1:300 scale, so I'm going to have to order some more models. What a pity....

Out with the iron

A passing visit from Mr Page on the weekend answered my question from the last post.
Out with the clippers and 3 went to 2.

This looks a lot better.
And how did I get around not being able to drill into the metal? With a bit of bending of the brass wire and some superglue the project moves on again.

It's surprisingly strong. And as a lot of the aircraft have cast on underwing stores the wires have spots to clip/slot into. So I got stuck into the stack.

Mig 27's

Su25

And moving on to US Helicopters.

OH58  and AH1

I managed to solder everything up whie only burning my fingers twice. I found on my work storage area some thin PCB that was perferated into small rectanges that proved to be ideal bases for the models. Again lots of fun soldering to the base before the rest of the solder melted.
Now I just have to finish the painting.

New Toys Review.

The care package that delivered my Dutch, also had a few of the new 1980's infantry strips.
These were so nice that I gave them a coat of white followed by a smoke wash to try to bring out the detail.

New US strip

New German strip

New Denmark strip. I think that they have camoflage on the helmets.

 These are getting up towards GHQ in quality, and H&R is far more user friendly to order from.
( And while I understand the use of the larger feeder sprues which increase the sharpness of the casting, the Scottish in me feels that I should collect to off cuts and post them back to Andy...)

The new YPR 765 PRAT (the schoolboy in me always giggles when I see this). This is a new sculpt and not the old Skytrex model. The detail on the hammerhead is very nice too. I suspect this vehicle will be more stable than the US M901.

 Now I just have to get painting my Dutch

Finally a bit of modeling. I've had the ZSU57-2's for a while. I've just added figures from the old standing artillery crew strip.  This strip is great for adding crews to open topped AFV's as they are really thin.

I'm still not keen on the bendy gun barrels and I might yet replace them with hard wire.

Here comes the cavalry

For some odd reason I've collected a few reconnaissance battalions from several nations. I guess its because you get a bit of TOE and equipment variety in the MSH lists that's missing from the largely vanilla main units.

Tonight I thought I would run through my US cavalry units. the TOE for these changed quite a bit between the early 1970's and mid 1980's. Models are Heriocs and Ros (of some vintage)
In the mid 1970's the US cavalry units were stuck with 2 relatively useless vehicles in the M114 scout and the M551 light tank. In 1975ish they finally ditched theM114 and replaced it with more M551's (which at least had a decent gun, even if it threw out the optics and electronics when it was fired). This brought up the M551 numbers in a platoon from 3 to 6. Each troop had 18 M551, 3 M113 scouts and 3 M106 mortars.My chosen unit for this is 1st/4th Cavalry(known by the nickname "quarter horse") which was the divisional cavalry squadron for the 1st Infantry division, VII corps. It was also the last unit in USAEUR to trade in its M551's in the middle of 1979.
3 troops and I have not added in a SHQ yet. I also need to do some work on the bases

When the M551's were turned in they were replaced with 12 either M60A3's (V corps) or M60A1's (VII corps). 3 M150's (or later M901's again in V corps) were added. The chosen unit for this incarnation is the 3rd/12th Cavalry ( no idea what the nickname for this unit is) which was the divisional cavalry for the 3rd Armoured division (for which I have the 1st brigade as well). For this unit I have also added the 4th squadron which was equipped with helicopters from the late 1970's. 8 AH-1's, 8 OH-58C and 4 UH-1's with an infantry platoon. No idea what use you might find for this on the table.

I've also made an error model wise by using the M113 ACAV (models from GHQ) version for my scouts. it was invented for use in Vietnam, but was never issued to units in Europe (if you think I'm wrong, please provide photographic evidence).

In mid 1983 the M60 was replaced by the M1 (105mm version) starting with the 11thArmoured cavalry regiment. I've modeled the 1st squadron ("Ironhorse)". Again I need to replace the M113ACAV stands with plain M113's.

The 2nd and 11 Armoured Cavalry regiment squadrons had a 4th troop which was a tank company. they also got a battalion of artillery in M109's.The M1's were delivered to Europe in US forest green paint only (despite what another wargaming company might have you believe), and did not receive any camouflage painting until the NATO 3 colour scheme was introduced in 1987 (what was the same for the M2/M3). The M1's are by Scotia (as I don't think Heroics and Ros make an original  M1, just the M1A1)

On the trail

There has been a meme running round the wargaming blogs sphere of late about how we should all get better at project management, to avoid project creep and ensure that we don't wind up with piles of lead that we will take to our graves (creating a stack of mini toxic waste dumps in the process).
personally I think its a nice idea, but fat chance of it happening as wargamers as a breed are restrained and sensible creatures when confronted with the latest models.

This was going to be a discussion on what I should buy next army wise, but rethinking it this is a bit boring really. Instead I will go through a bit of research I've been putting together in the last couple of days.

I've been interested in the Austrian army fixed fortifications for a while now. One of my sources of information was this document, a PDF for the fire and fury rule set. Now, while the lists are possibly the worst format I've ever seen (and I've created lists from the DBM medieval German army list), there are some gems buried in there. On page 10 under the panzer battalion notes it suggests that there was still a battalion of M47 tanks in the early 1980's. Initially I was very skeptical of this, as I knew that the Austrian army had brought the M60 in the mid 1960's. However it seems that they only purchased 120 tanks, which is only enough for 2 battalions plus some spares and training tanks. given that there were 3 brigades in the only regular division it seems possible that the 3rd tank battalion was indeed still M47's. good enough form me to buy a battalions worth.

Its hard not to be tempted by the fortification units as well. while the Centurion and M47 turrets make sense,  the Charioteer turrets with a 20 prd gun are just too tempting.

On the Workbench

A while ago I purchased some of the new modern Soviet infantry from H&R.
These ones are in action poses.

 I'm having trouble paint these at the moment. Not because I don't like them, but because I've painted several thousand of the old style figures (all on 10 man strips) and you get into a rhythm. However I think that these are going to be more dynamic on the bases. I'll have to buy some more APC's to use them (possibly BTR-50's).

I also brought some of the SPG-9's which is a 73mm RCL firing rounds similar to the main gun of the BMP-1. This is present in all battalion anti-tank platoons in Warsaw Pact infantry units.

A close up to show off my crap painting

The only way that you could buy these previously get these was in M07 Soviet airborne troops, which was a bit of a pain. I've included a picture of the older model for comparison.

On the table, you couldn't tell the difference.

I now need to buy some Sagger strips. I'm going to mix my AT platoons despite what the MSH lists say.  I still think that there should be a mixed stand with an AT and an ATGW factor.The current system doesn't work at a battalion level.
I also really like what Andy has done with his new releases and being able to buy different strips of support weapons. Its a pain for him, but I guess he can just toss the unused metal back into the melter.

I must look into the new East German figures as its another army (faction I think is the new phrase that I have tolearn) I would like to have. Megolomania knows no bounds....

MSH encounter battle on the road to Bad Hersfeld

I hate to think how long its been since I last played MSH. I think its well over 2 years. My fellow SH player in Palmerston North had expressed an interest in playing an MSH game as it fits with his interests as well. I provided the armies and he supplied the location. I even managed to remember to take some pictures.

the US forces consisted of 4 understrength battalions from the 1st brigade of the 3rd armoured division. Lucky for Jon, he got to command a battalion of M60A2's (I'm a generous sort of guy, and its hard to find the points for 2 battalions of M60A1's). My lists was 2 full BTR 70 battalions with T64B companies and 122mm artillery support, backed up by the divisions independent tank battalion with T62's and 152mm artillery support. The table was laid out and the dice thrown to give an encounter battle with Jon having 1 battalion on table.

Jon placed his on table BHQ on the far large hill. I looked at the table and pondered attacking across a stream into the teeth of a set battalion. My generalship skills must be improving as I recognized this as a bad idea. I decided to flank march from the near table edge with one infantry battalion and the second across the hill. The T62 battalion would follow on turn 3 down the central road.

So, what was the US plan? As far as I could glean it was along these lines.

One of the infantry battalions was placed in reserve behind the M60A1 battalion on the hill. the M60A2's got the crossroads (and a meeting with the T62's) and the M113 battalion held the southern flank.  Moving the action on a couple of turns and we get to this...

The 2 Russian infantry battalions push in on the left flank while the T62's charge the M60A2 battalion. The US troops on the right flank start moving to flank the Russians but just a bit slowly.

A few turns further on and the fighting got very confused with stands all over the place.

The US infantry was having a great day in close combat with my troops taking a kicking. however direct fire and artillery slowly whittles them down in the top left. The T62's were demonstrating what a bad idea missles in a tank were, and the second largely fresh BTR battalion was positioning itself to take on the flanking M60A1 battalion. For those wondering what the hell is going on in the middle, there were hedge rows attached to one side of the cast roads which severely limited shooting ranges and firing arch's. The M150 stands were also demonstrating how poorly the MSH rules deal with ATGW armed tank destroyers.

Finally the US infantry battalion broke, and the T62's won a close combat round (the Russians 1st after 5 attempts). The T62's had outshot there opponents, and the Russian infantry was starting to make inroads into the attacking M60A1 battalion. At this point we called the game as I had another appointment. I realized that not only had I not used the Hinds I had, but the counter battery units the US had been given were in fact for the defend list I had knocked up that morning. The counted battery was far less of a problem than it could have been due to a long streak of 1's on the dice. I also didn't make clear enough the benefits of cross attachment at the start of the game which could have changed things if the M60A1's had been more spread out across the table.

Despite this it was a good hard scrap between 2 reasonably balanced forces. Hopefully this will encourage Jon to play a few more games.

Austrian army 1980's

Slow continued painting and basing of my Austrians has lead to sorting out some sort of army list for them.
Que 'opening can of worms' sound.

Now I had been using the good old Ultramodern army lists from 1986 to base my army on, and for the most part I've found them to be reasonably accurate. This doesn't extend to the Warsaw Pact with some of the equipment being rather inaccurate. Anyhoo, back to the topic at hand.

As part of its re-establishment as a nation in 1955, Austria was limited in what its armed forces could use. No missiles or submarines, or long range artillery. Surrounded by Warsaw pact countries, Austria's army was set up to delay invaders moving through to other countries (though I can't see Austria , especially the western end, being a convenient highway to anywhere). As such it was largely based round local troops and blocking units backed by more mobile regular infantry units and 3 Panzergrenadier brigades. The regular units throw up a few problems of their own equipment wise, but I'll get to that in a later post.

The local troops are quite interesting from an 'odd equipment' point of view. The blocking companys manned fixed fortifications which had Europes largest collection of fixed tank turrets. These were mostly 105mm Centurion turrets, but also included M47, M36, M24 and even someold T34/85's. To cap it all there were also Charioteer turrets. River blocking units were armed with 40mm AA cannons to shoot up likely crossing points
I've been pondering how to model these on the table. Obviously the attack factors take care of themselves but the defensive factors are far more difficult. Some options I have pondered would be
-counting as infantry so a 7 to destroy with AI factors.
-spotted as infantry (except when firing).
The points cost would also have to be sorted out.
I don't think that they should be allowed to ambush as I suspect that Warsaw Pact operatives would have plotted out the general locations of all the emplacements.
deploying on the table I would suggest that one tank turret stand and 1 infantry stand be deployed touching each other and also touching a terrain feature thats not a hill.
Anyone else have any thoughts ?

Bibliography.
http://www.fireandfury.com/orbats/modcwaustria.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Austrian_Armed_Forces_in_1989
Bruce Rea-taylors Ultramodern army lists 1986

No surprises...

.......For anyone that knows me.

After the previous post on buying a T55 tank regiment, I was looking in 'Der Room' for something else when I spied this in the stack.

 Hmm, what could be inside the 2nd one down.....

 Well, it appears that I already own a T55 tank regimen (with BTR 50's no less). Admittedly they are the older model, but still....
The interesting thing is that it says 1 on the box, so obviously there is a second box somewhere.
Is it in this stack?

 Or in this stack?

Obviously I need to do a bit more research into local WARPAC requirements before I charge off and shop...

No photoshop

Many moons ago on one of our trips to Christchurch to play MSH my collection of Russian helicopters suffered a catastrophic accident which resulted in the remains being left in a box. Last week I dug them out and reassembled the bits.

Theres 2 Hind F's on the near end (not obvious and I was about to order 2 more...) and the rest Hind D. I'll have to see if I can buy some of the sprues separately to get the rocket pods and AT missiles replaced. I have never been keen on rotor representations a the single blades look silly, and the plastic disks get scratched over time and look just as bad.
I'm still not sure quite how I've wound up with 7 (and I'm sure that there is a Hind A somewhere in the bits box) but they are not photoshopped into a picture to make a game look larger than it is.

And at least under MSH the forward HMG can shoot as far as the tip of the models tail.

Gamers or collectors

I'm on a mailing list for a group here in Palmy that I've been along too a couple of times. I've struggled to find a gaming group since leaving Wellington 8 years ago (wow that is a long time), and its more to do with like minds I think. The games up here tend to be either FOW or fantasy of some sort, neither of which I have ever played (yes, I have managed to avoid Flames of war. never seemed to make sense to me). I've also noticed that they tend to spend a lot of money on models (or maybe I'm just tight) for different games. Now given that my purchases tend to be rather catholic in terms of that I only really tend to spend money with Heroics and Ros 9my 28mm Eureka addiction notwithstanding) I wonder why people would spend large sums of money on kickstarter models that they might only use a couple of times. This then got me further pondering on my collection of Modern Spearhead armies and which ones I have got the most use out of and why. This doesn't count Wargaming competitions where I have been known to supply 1/2 the armies....
MSH
-US. The first modern (it was ultramodern when I brought it) army I owned and the first 6mm figures. Went from being an easy beat under WRG to an army that I like to play under MSH. The variety of toys and list variations keep me coming back. Who could not like M60A2's. All in MERDC camouflage apart from te M1's (Team Yankey please take note)
-Russian. Brought as an opponent to the US army and I've been adding bits to it for so long it has turned into a monster, or at least a multi headed monster. I suppose some bits of it (the airborne contingent) have had far less use than others (the BTR70 regiment) but as it provides 1/2 the forces in any 1980's cold war contest its right up there.
-West German. Doesn't get a lot of use. Odd as I have 3 brigades (2 panzer grenadier and 1 territorial) so its not for lack of choice. I just don't like the TOE as the battalions are too small, and there's just not enough variation in the lists to make it interesting.
-British. I think I can remember using this army once or possibly twice, which is odd as I do like the TOE set up and the variety of kit.
-Czechs. Again I think I have used this a couple of times, but it tends to sit on the shelf as the Professor U-S monster gets the table time (when he's visiting).
-Belgians. I recall there was a stack of stuff going free at the club one day, and I got the French. AMX VCI APC's said Belgian to me, as well as the YPR 765 for variation. I've actually never used this army, though I think its had a run twice in our Mega games.

So that's the complete armies section, or at least ones that I can use for the scenario generation system. there are also a few others.
-French. I have some of the models based for this, but that's as far as it has gotten. Like the West Germans I don't like the TOE or the unit variety. might happen one day, but probably not.
-Austrian. Interesting indigenous kit in the APC's and SK 105. Brought to face off Professor U-S' Czechs. I've just had a look last night and I have the bits for a mechanised brigade. Well, did have as I brought a stack of West German HS-30's as they were the closest thing to a Saurer 4K4 from H&R (and I was not going down the C-in-C path). Well at least until H&R released the Saurer 4K4 in all its variations (and a nice model it is too, I must go and order some...). The territorial TOE is also quite interesting, especially with some older kit still in service (recoiless rifles on jeeps, anyone?) I just have the certain knowledge that the Czech monster will treat it as a speed bump.

On top of this I also have a hankering for Dutch (Centurions and YPR-408), Hungarians (PZSH-IV and another opponent for the Austrians) and East Germans (all that lovely older Soviet kit in T55's and BTR 60's). Its tempered by the realisation that unless my gaming situation changes dramatically ie everyone in Palmy starts playing MSH then most of this stuff is not going to get a run in the foreseeable future. which then leads to the question of if I buy it am I just a collector rather than a gamer. And is one really a collector if the models just sit in boxes for years (which I would term hording).

Russian list attempt 2

After my previous list was invalidated by some changes to the scenario system, I decided to have another go. This is teh first list that I have written in a long time.
I moved the time back 5 years to 1980. out went all the corps artillery, and I went back to the divisional and regimental level stuff. Unfortunately this means that you are reduced to throwing stones at the defenders with 122 mm howitzers, but its better than nothing, and can at least be used for a couple of rounds of smoke.
(I find it a bit odd that if a WW2 battalion had 6 120mm artillery pieces attached to it that would be a stack of artillery. In MSH I feel that it just entertains the defenders).

The point of difference with this list is the core is 2 beefed up BTR 70 battalions with attached tank companies. The 3rd battalion is the divisional independent tank battalion.

RHQ
1 BTR 70			@7		7
2 battalions each
BHQ	1 BTR-70		@7		7
	9 BTR-70 ICT		@7		63
	1 BTR-70 AT		@19		19
	1 BTR-70 AA		@14		14
	2 120mm Mortar/truck		@7		14
	3 T64B		@26		78
					195
				2	390
AA coy	1 ZSU 23/4		@17		17
	1 SA-9		@21		21
AT coy	2 BRDM-3		@19		38
artillery	1 FAO (on table)		@10		10
off table	4 D30 122 How		@9 x 0.8		29
					39
Divisional attachments
Independent tank battalion
BHQ	T62E		@21		21
	10 T62E		@21		210
					231
AT coy	2 BRDM-3		@19		38
helicopters
	2 Hind D		@43		86
artillery	1 FAO (on table)		@10		10
off table	4 D30 122 How		@9 x 0.8		29
					39
artillery	1 FAO (on table)		@10		10
off table	4 D20 152 How		@11 x 0.8		35
					45
					944
				944 *0.9	849.6
Option A
Counter battery.
off table	4 M46 122 gun		@13 x 0.8		42

Not sure what I would add for options. Possibly a small BTR battalion to operate with the tank battalion to provide some infantry support as either an option A, or a larger battalion as an option B. More AA in the form of an off table SA-6 would not go amiss either.

The other side of the fence.

Following on from the Austrians, I figured it was as good a time as any to cover the opposition.
Luke Ueda-Sarson has exhaustively covered the Czechs, and I'm going to wave my hands a bit describing the Hungarians. All information for this list has been sourced from Bruce Rea-Taylor's "Ultramodern army lists vol1" and Google tends to broadly back it up.
The Hungarians managed to have there own arms industry as well, though not on the same scale as the Czechs or Poles. It was pretty much just their own wheeled APC. Unlike everyone else it was based on a 4 wheeled chassis (not 8 like everyone else). This suggests that the average Hungarian is a bit smaller than his fellow Warpac allies. It also means that the support weapons get their own separate ride.

The Hungarian army was mostly motor rifle divisions with only one tank division (from my notes). Their tank of choice was the good old T55A.

Regimental HQ
1 OT-65/ command stand
1 PSZH-4 Infantry combat team

3 Battalions
BHQ 1 PSZH-4 command team
6 PSZH-4 Infantry combat teams
1 PSZH-4 / 30mm GL team
1 PSZH-4 / Sagger ATGW team
1 PSZH-1 / SA-7 team
1 PSZH-4 / 82mm Mortar

1 Battalion
BHQ T55A
3 companies each 2 T55A

Regimental anti tank company
2 BRDM 2S

Regimental AA company
1 SA-9 AA
1 ZSU 23/4

Recce company
2 OT-65
1 PT-76

Regimental artillery group.
FAO in OT-65
4 122mm M1943 / truck

Divisional artillery would be more 122mm as above, with a battalion of M1943 152mm, and Bm21's
Unfortunately I have not been able to determine how the BMP-1's were issued. Hungary had 500 which is roughly enough for 5 regiments. As there were 5 MR divisions and a tank division, there were obviously not enough to go round. Hungary also possessed 150 BTR-50 which would be enough AFV's for a tank division.

MSH central Europe

One of the major battlegrounds that World War 3 was going to be fought over (on the ground at least) was West Germany. Thus at times it must have resembled a large armed camp, with East Germany not much better.

For the war gamer there is a wide variety of armies to choose from. In Northag, there are the Dutch, Belgians and British, as we ll as the Germans. It was also the destination for the US IIIrd corps with its hardware prepositioned and the men to be flown in from the US. These troops would be facing Russian and east German troops. Further north there is a collection of troops 'defending' Denmark which includes a West German division and the Danish army.

Further south we get into Centag. This at first appears to be only the US and West Germany facing off against the Russians, East Germans and Czechs, buts we also get the French as an added bonus. And that's before we get the West German mountain and airborne troops.

But that's not the whole story. Go a bit further south-east and we come to Austria. Not a member of NATO, but with borders facing the Warsaw pact. So we can add into the Mix Czechoslovakia and Hungary, south of here we have Italy and Yugoslavia. As an added bonus all 5 nations have indigenous arms industries so there are some different AFV's to field.

The last, and possibly most interesting spot is the area shown in the map below.

The border between Greece, Turkey and Bulgaria. maybe not that interesting at first glance, but Greece and Turkey have never really got along. Add in Yugoslavia, Albania and Bulgaria and there are some interesting options here.
To cap it all off, no army in this region has first rate equipment, with some dating back to WW2.

Next will be to have a look at some of the armies in more detail.